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[7:28] Mark of a Hero: sorry i was afk
i'll get in next game
[7:46] Wolfca: now?
[7:47] Mark of a Hero: eating xD
[7:47] Wolfca: so no?
[7:47] Mark of a Hero: yup but after this for sure
i/ll spectate ur match
[8:03] : lol kalista dced
[8:08] : amumu dced -.-
[8:09] Wolfca: get out
I wanna invite you
dude
duuuuuude
let
me
invite you
[8:11] : stop creeping on our game xd
[8:12] Mark of a Hero: lol xD
im ready to go
[9:04] Wolfca: uno mas?
[9:05] Mark of a Hero: ?
[9:05] Wolfca: you havnt seen shanhai noon?
[9:05] Mark of a Hero: whats that?
[9:06] Wolfca: a movie
uno mas = one more
[9:06] Mark of a Hero: oh I remeber it had jackie chan in it
[9:06] Wolfca: yup
where are you from and how old are you and whats your favourite color?
[9:07] Mark of a Hero: I'm from UAE
24
Blue
:P
ca = canada?
[9:35] Wolfca: no
me and a friend made the gamer name
when we were like
15
and
they stock
I have a controversial question to you
[9:36] Mark of a Hero: ohh I see
go ahead
[9:36] Wolfca: Is islam the greatest mindvirus of all time?
hello
[9:38] Mark of a Hero: lol thats actually a dificult question for me
[9:38] Wolfca: whats your take on it
do you catch my drift?
what is a virus
[9:38] Mark of a Hero: yea I get ya but I dont want to give u the wrong idea about islam
[9:39] Wolfca: its something that infects people when they are sick, or having a hard time and younger people get em easily
[9:39] Mark of a Hero: its actually considred a religion from where I'm living
but some people interpret it wrong
[9:40] Wolfca: dude
I have a question for you
do you know harry potter?
[9:40] Mark of a Hero: to make it sound like its a virus or some kind of sickness
yup I know
[9:40] Wolfca: k
lets say
that there are 3 groups
[9:40] Mark of a Hero: ok
[9:41] Wolfca: one LOOOOVEs the harry potter films and can tell you all that happens in them by memory. the second group consists of all the people that have read all the books and love them beyond belief. And there
there are only one guy
in the last group
but he is friend with Rollings (the author) and have talked with her for hours and hours about the potter universe
lets say the 3 groups meet eachother
which one
is the "right" potter fans?
[9:43] Mark of a Hero: the ones who read the book becaue it was there before the films :P
[9:44] Wolfca: but what about the guy who have the source?
[9:45] Mark of a Hero: u mentioned his friend not the writer
[9:45] Wolfca: and there are millions upon millions that have seen the movies and believe that they are they are the best potter fans, are they all wrong?
[9:45] Mark of a Hero: nope they are not
[9:45] Wolfca: but you just said so
[9:45] Mark of a Hero: but we are human beings
[9:45] Wolfca: so let me ask you again "who are the right ones"?
who got the right version?
Im a sneaky fellow dude, do you see the comparison?
[9:46] Mark of a Hero: everyone must have an opinion
[9:46] Wolfca: lets say
that all the people on this planet
thought
the same thing
that there are unicorns on the other side of the moon
does it make it right?
and true?
opinion doesnt really matter like that
the fact are
unless people set "specifics"
there is no answer
to the potter question
you catch my drift?
[9:48] Mark of a Hero: I'm trying to understand you but honestly its hard
[9:48] Wolfca: The reason I ask
is cause
I knowz
Im from nothern europe
the viking part
[9:49] Mark of a Hero: I don't know what idea you got about islam
[9:49] Wolfca: here is my talking point
Where I live
[9:49] Mark of a Hero: but trust me If you know the real islam you would be amazed by it not the version that ISIS is spreading xD
[9:51] Wolfca: from muslim countries and even second and third generations
and its
like
pulling people out of a fuckking timemachine
Its like talking to people from the middleages
so when you talk to them
about deep ****
its like
whatever I say
its the first time they "hear"/"think"/"talk" about it
[9:53] : they dont really understand science, psychology and logic/rational
you still here?
am I boring you?
[9:53] Mark of a Hero: hmm I can tell u not all of us are like that I can assure u that there are people better suited than me to answer your question
its true that i'm muslim
[9:53] Wolfca: that
is
[9:54] Mark of a Hero: but i dont follow islam 100%
[9:54] Wolfca: the
same
bloody answer
I
get
every
fuckking
time mate
I ask them what "they" believe
[9:54] Mark of a Hero: because its the truth lol
[9:54] Wolfca: and they say someone else can answer it better
wtf
wtf is that
dude
I must lack empathy
cause I have
no such thing in my life
there is nothing I believe in I cant defend on a basic fuckking level
wanna do the quick test?
[9:55] Mark of a Hero: here we have scientists that know everythindg in islam they are the ones that can answer u I believe that because I'm afraid if i say something u will understand it wrongly and have a bad idea about i
I can tell u though
[9:55] Wolfca: dude
you are proving my bloody point
for me
[9:56] Mark of a Hero: that when they teach us about it they dont force us to follow
[9:56] Wolfca: mate why
[9:56] Mark of a Hero: we are free to live however we like
[9:56] Wolfca: are you trolling me?
[9:56] Mark of a Hero: they dont disgrace us or cut our heads or that ****
[9:57] Wolfca: wtf is that
are you trolling?
dude
Lets say
a kid
[9:57] Mark of a Hero: lol no but u are implying that we live like that
[9:57] Wolfca: at the age of like
11
Im implying that "the culture" doesnt focus on thinking
what is a "bias"?
[9:58] Mark of a Hero: if thats true they wouldnt be employing people from overseas to teach us
or build American and British Universities
[9:58] Wolfca: dude
proffessions
are not
the same thing as thinking
[9:59] Mark of a Hero: or even sponsoring students to study overseas
[9:59] Wolfca: my littlebrother
is reading
to become
a lawyer
and that is ALL he knows
and its retardation to see
[10:00] Mark of a Hero: they want us to understand over cultures and respect them or they wouldnt even bother
[10:00] Wolfca: dude
if I want
to punch you in the face
should you respect me for that?
my point is not taht you want that
my point is
that
there are things
outside of respect
that doesnt deserve it
[10:02] Mark of a Hero: I probably will because thats what islam is about its teaching us to be polite and understanding no matter what even if u punch or kick me I wont harbor any bad feelings because thats what islam is
all about to keep expecting the best from people
doesnt matter if they are muslims or not
i get u
[10:02] Wolfca: no you dont
[10:02] Mark of a Hero: u think that we are brainwashed
lol
[10:03] Wolfca: then explain my position for me then
without scorn
prove that you are not stunted
no
lets do it another way
lets say a 10 year old boy walks up to me
and ask
how many holy books are there in the world
I say
"Idont know, let me google it"
"around 300"
okay
"which one is right?"
[10:05] Mark of a Hero: I'm not because the things that science discovered "now" it had been stated in the Quran long before science discovered it.
not everything can be explained by science
[10:05] Wolfca: dude
that is selective picking and choosing
and its dishonest
and
its propaganda
Ive read
some of it
and I can tell you
that
if there was a creator
a being of such magnitute
to create everything
an
and
he ever wrote a book
it would not be the qu'ran
it would be of such awesomeness
that illeterate people would have problems reading
[10:07] : cause they could psychicly hear it in their heads
and it wouldnt need to be translated
cause every1 one the planet would understand it
[10:07] Mark of a Hero: you read some not all of it if u did u will understand that the things mentioned in it has just been discovered by science so how is it that it was mentioned in the quran all these years?
how would someone know that those things exist when they did not have the tools before to discover it?
[10:08] Wolfca: stop using "god of the gap" arguments mate
they only work on stupid people
and I dont know what you are implying that I am
[10:08] Mark of a Hero: what is god of the gap?
[10:08] Wolfca: should I be Woooo'ed into believe nonsense that only makes sense if you get it shovelled in from childhood
god of the gap
means
that if there is something that we dont understand
then god did it
was actually not really that argument taht you used
you used the "see I told you
but did you catch my point earlier?
that a book
made for human benefit
would need to be "read"
there would be no priests
or imams
[10:10] Mark of a Hero: see thats where ur wrong everything we understand and dont understand its been created by god I'm just simply telling u that science cant explain everything
[10:11] Wolfca: science is a method dude
nothing more, nothing less
its just the way we figure out
what is true
and what is not
and there is a field of study
[10:11] Mark of a Hero: see ur talking like that because u dont believe that there will be an afterlife
[10:11] Wolfca: the have emerged
okay
lets say
[10:12] Mark of a Hero: in the other hand I believe in it
[10:12] Wolfca: we are both
blank
dude
lets say
we are both not talking
and all of a sudden
I say
dude
there is unicorns on the other side of the moon
what would be your response?
[10:13] Mark of a Hero: u want for all people to be happy and speak the same language and there not be anymore wars, fights, etc... thats what the Quran described as heaven bro
I want to live in a world like that thats why I'm following
lets say
it was all wrong
[10:14] Wolfca: no
dude
[10:14] Mark of a Hero: I have been brainwashed
[10:14] Wolfca: my game first
then yours
k?
I wouldnt mind following your logic
[10:14] Mark of a Hero: lets say you are right and I was wrong
[10:14] Wolfca: but lets finish mine
[10:14] Mark of a Hero: I die and thats there is no heaven hell etc...
listen
[10:14] Wolfca:
http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Pascal's_wager
you think you are the first to think of that?
that
is why I call muslims
or their culture
lacking in intellectual honesty
[10:15] Mark of a Hero: ok bro say that I died and there was no afterlife whatsoever
[10:15] Wolfca: k
you are now dead
and their is nothing
[10:16] Mark of a Hero: is it so bad that I have lived all my life in honesty?
without drinking alchohol
whithout cheating on my wife
[10:16] Wolfca: what does alcohol have to do with honesty?
what does cheating have to do with honesty?
[10:17] Mark of a Hero: without abandoning my children or my parents?
see
[10:17] Wolfca: what does that have to do with honesty?
no I dont see
you talk about honesty
and then
all of sudden
you talk about morality
[10:17] Mark of a Hero: thats what Quran teaches us
[10:17] Wolfca: as those
dude
so what
cant you think?
I dont cheat on alvi either
and never will
I dont drink
and I act out of respect for my parents (because they deserve it)
what
does
that have to do
with honesty?
?
[10:19] Mark of a Hero: ya you didnt let me finish they always tell us that foreigenrs have the attitudes of a muslim
but too bad they doesnt recognize them themselves
[10:19] Wolfca: who are they?
and why do they matter?
[10:19] Mark of a Hero: everyone I've ever met
[10:19] Wolfca: now we are back to the unicorn on the moon thing again
I dont care man
what if I told you
that I know a guy
who knows a guy
that say all muslims are cunnts
who
cares
[10:20] Mark of a Hero: because I'm telling u that if I were like u and think the same I wouldnt care more or less
but on the other hand
[10:20] Wolfca: what people believe is not the point
[10:20] Mark of a Hero: what if there turned out to be an afterlife?\
[10:20] Wolfca: WHY they believe it
is
dude
you didnt see my link?
its called pascals wager
If you believe in God and God does exist, you will be rewarded with eternal life in heaven: thus an infinite gain.
If you do not believe in God and God does exist, you will be condemned to remain in h
[10:21] Mark of a Hero: I'm not at loss wither I'm a muslim or not I'm just glad that I was shown the right way
[10:22] Wolfca: and by what metic
*metric
have you decided
that it was the right one?
cause all I hear
is "that Im right because im right"
[10:23] Mark of a Hero: I just told u that the Quran explained things long before they were discovered by science
[10:23] Wolfca: that
is not true
[10:23] Mark of a Hero: it is a religion of peace
[10:24] Wolfca: well
people use it for war aswell
then
its just a religion
right?
[10:24] Mark of a Hero: I'm sure as hell I wouldn't be the same as I am now without its guidance
[10:24] Wolfca: that is because
you live in a part of the world
where it has hijacked to much
[10:25] Mark of a Hero: u think I dont have the urge to drink or go to casinos etc?
Honestly I do
but I always think about the consequences
[10:25] Wolfca: so do it. As long as you do it in moderations
see
[10:25] Mark of a Hero: and thats my point
[10:25] Wolfca: what does islam have to do with it then?
when you have a healthy mind
and know to control and moderate actions
[10:26] Mark of a Hero: I dont want to do it and then it appears that there is an afterlife
and if it doent
[10:26] Wolfca: omg
[10:26] Mark of a Hero: I'm not at loss eitherway
[10:26] Wolfca: pascals wager
again
lets say
that there is an afterlife
do you think
[10:26] Mark of a Hero: pascal wager
[10:26] Wolfca: yeah
[10:26] Mark of a Hero: thats brainwashing right there
[10:26] Wolfca: ?
its a theory
its like
[10:27] Mark of a Hero: proof?
[10:27] Wolfca: 2 sec
http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Pascal's_wager
the theory states
If you believe in God and God does exist, you will be rewarded with eternal life in heaven: thus an infinite gain.
-
If you do not believe in God and God does exist, you will be condemned to remain in hell forever: thus an infinite loss.
-
If you believe in God and God does not exist, you will not be rewarded: thus a finite loss.
-
If you do not believe in God and God does not exist, you will not be rewarded, but you have lived your own life: thus a finite gain.
[10:28] Mark of a Hero: thats not proof
its just a theory
[10:28] Wolfca: dude
you keep saying it
Im just telling you
what its called
wtf
a person
who is cared to go to hell
[10:29] Mark of a Hero: lol you are showing me a theory
[10:29] Wolfca: or really wants to go to heaven
yeah
cause you keep using it
[10:29] Mark of a Hero: just like the afterlife
theorys might be wrong
[10:29] Wolfca: see
that
is dishonest
[10:29] Mark of a Hero: I wager the afterlife more than a couple of theories
[10:29] Wolfca: wager means
hegging
it means
to secure
you believe in a religion juuuuuuust to make sure
some of us
think that that is dishonest
it means that you are fearful of something of which there is no evidense
which is psychotic
[10:31] Mark of a Hero: what I meant is that I chose to believe in the afterlife "that might" be true or wromg better to believe 1 or 2 theories that "might" be true or wronng
thats why im telling for the third time
[10:31] Wolfca: I know dude
[10:31] Mark of a Hero: what if this something turned out to be true?
[10:31] Wolfca: I know what you are doing
and what you are thinking
dude
do you think I dont have the fantasy?
lets play that game then
lets say that there is no afterlife
k
lets say their is an afterlife, but no god
lets say there is an afterlife
[10:32] Mark of a Hero: thats impossible
if there is an afterlife
[10:32] Wolfca: but god has a sense of humor
where he put
good people
[10:32] Mark of a Hero: sure as hell science did not create it
[10:32] Wolfca: in hell
and bad people in heaven
[10:33] Mark of a Hero: you never know
[10:33] Wolfca: create what?
nope
ill never know
[10:33] Mark of a Hero: afterlife
thats why we have choice
[10:33] Wolfca: dude
[10:33] Mark of a Hero: whether to follow the quran or not
[10:33] Wolfca: afterlife
[10:34] Mark of a Hero: by the way
[10:34] Wolfca: why the quran?
why not one of the other 300 holy books?=
why not the tora?
or the bible?
or the deadsea scrolls?
why not the older text from mesopotamia
or the better writen ones from the indus valley?
how
[10:35] Mark of a Hero: we all have sins I'm not sure myself whether I'll be placed in heven or hell but I'm doing my best to follow what I can from the Quran in hopes that I'll be forgiven
[10:35] Wolfca: in all honesty
[10:35] Mark of a Hero: thats because
all the other books
are mentioned in the quran
does any other book
[10:35] Wolfca: no
its not
link me then
[10:35] Mark of a Hero: mention our Quran?
I may not know a lot
but i'm 100% sure
[10:36] Wolfca: then why do you pretent to know alot?
[10:36] Mark of a Hero: that it mentions all the books and religions
[10:36] Wolfca: god
[10:36] Mark of a Hero: i can promise u this at least
[10:36] Wolfca: I dont care what you promise
[10:36] Mark of a Hero: i wont tell u something that im not sure of
[10:36] Wolfca: I care what you can prove
and what degree you can prove it
[10:37] Mark of a Hero: u read some of the quran
[10:37] Wolfca: yeah
[10:37] Mark of a Hero: read all of it
[10:37] Wolfca: nah
to dumb
have you even tried to read it?
[10:37] Mark of a Hero: it mentions everything
[10:37] Wolfca: xD
no it doesnt
[10:37] Mark of a Hero: I read it every week
thats why I'm sure of it
[10:37] Wolfca: why?
what a complete
and utter
waist of time
[10:38] Mark of a Hero: u say its a virus
for me its a cure
[10:38] Wolfca: I mean I read like 100 books a year
and I think that is to little
you read the same book?
how fuucking backwards
dude
[10:38] Mark of a Hero: it might be a waste to u because u never tried to understand it
im not blaming u
[10:38] Wolfca: dude
understanding it
[10:38] Mark of a Hero: seeing that u asked y they use it for war
[10:38] Wolfca: means throwing away THINKING
I had a muslim mate
in class
saying that there is nothing violent in the quran
im tired of people thinking that no one checks their shiit
[10:39] Mark of a Hero: not all muslims are the same u cant genalize a whole pupolation based on 1 person
[10:39] Wolfca: I read An-Nisa
cause I remember there being some nasty shiit in there
[10:39] Mark of a Hero: there is no violence
some people interpret it wrong
[10:40] Wolfca: An-Nisa 34
...
there is nothing to interpret
the thing before
is about property rights
and the thing after
is who should own what after a deceased person
An-Nisa 34
says
Men have authority over women by [right of] what Allah has given one over the other and what they spend [for maintenance] from their wealth. So righteous women are devoutly obedient, guarding in
[the husband's] absence what Allah would have them guard. But those [wives] from whom you fear arrogance
[first] advise them; [then if they persist], forsake them in bed; and [finally], strike them.
[10:41] Mark of a Hero: lol that is so awkward in english
of course it would give a wrong impression
wait a minute gotta read it in arabic
[10:42] Wolfca: and that is why
k
sure ill wait
[10:43] Mark of a Hero: its not hard to learn arabic by the way I think its best to read Quran in Arabic to get the right meaning
[10:43] Wolfca: I could learn hawaian too
just as useful in my life
An-Nisa 34 is religious sanctioned violence
[10:44] Mark of a Hero: yup but if u want to understand the Quran better that is the effort ull have to make its up to you in the end
[10:44] Wolfca: why would I?
Its not true
its just a rewrite of the bible from the 600th century
[10:44] Mark of a Hero: the same chapter that made me respect my mother and wife and all women
[10:45] Wolfca: so what?
[10:45] Mark of a Hero: lol weird as hell
let me check it
[10:45] Wolfca: what is weird?
that you believe religious propaganda?
dude
[10:45] Mark of a Hero: nope
[10:45] Wolfca: what is weird then?
[10:46] Mark of a Hero: whats wierd is that AN-NISA is the whole reason I respect all women regardless of their nation, color, religion
[10:46] Wolfca: you should respect all women...
[10:46] Mark of a Hero: but u say its depraving rights
[10:46] Wolfca: you shouldnt need a fuuucking reason
[10:46] Mark of a Hero: why should I?
[10:47] Wolfca: are you asking me?
[10:47] Mark of a Hero: if it was up to me
[10:47] Wolfca: do you know what an axiom is?
[10:47] Mark of a Hero: I wouldnt respect any woman that I dont like
but the teachings of Quran forces me to
[10:47] Wolfca: dude
I dont respect women I dont like
its natural
but
I respect their rights to exist
and that their journey throw life is alittle different than mine
why is it
you want a religious reason
to think healthy things?
were you a psychopath before ?
[10:49] Mark of a Hero: it might be natural to u but to me it is not but I have to whetehr I like it or not because these are the teachings of the Quran
it brings out the best in people
[10:49] Wolfca: like ISIS
xD
[10:49] Mark of a Hero: I'm saying this from my point
[10:49] Wolfca: no, it doesnt
empathy
brings
[10:50] Mark of a Hero: someone else night not respect **** even tough they are more muslim than me
[10:50] Wolfca: the best out of people
by that logic
[10:50] Mark of a Hero: again that is individuality
[10:50] Wolfca: true
[10:50] Mark of a Hero: if u want to talk about ISIS
[10:50] Wolfca: I dont
[10:50] Mark of a Hero: answer this then
why arent we standing with them?
[10:50] Wolfca: but I dont
...
[10:51] Mark of a Hero: if islam is about war
all of us would be fighting with them
[10:51] Wolfca: I didnt say that is was
[10:51] Mark of a Hero: and telling ourselves its "Jehad"
Jehad means if u die u directly go to heaven lol
[10:51] Wolfca: A "strawman" argument; is saying something, as though the other person hold that view, and then attacking that
instead of the real points
[10:51] Mark of a Hero: it happens that some people are just that stupid to follow them
[10:51] Wolfca: I have never stated
"islam is a war religion
[10:52] Mark of a Hero: im trying to answer all your questions man
[10:52] Wolfca: I said that some use it for peace
and some for war
dude
I dont want them answered like that
[10:52] Mark of a Hero: so u dont feel that i ignore u
[10:52] Wolfca: I dont
you just spend like an hour talking to me
proof enough
my main point
[10:53] Mark of a Hero: islam is arabic means peace why would it tell us to go to war
[10:53] Wolfca: and you havnt really moved me from my position
though I really
wants
to me moved
dude
I dont care
I donnnnnt
care
the germans could call "nazism" = "love"
doesnt change what it fuucking is
[10:53] Mark of a Hero: thats why u should ask the real people I will not pretend to u that I know everything about islam
[10:54] Wolfca: I
[10:54] Mark of a Hero: I dont follow it 100% myslef
[10:54] Wolfca: dont
care
about the real people
as you call em
im interested
in why
[10:54] Mark of a Hero: I'm not the right person to move u but I can clear out some points hopefully
[10:54] Wolfca: dude
try and catch my drift
[10:55] Mark of a Hero: personally
[10:55] Wolfca: yeah?
[10:55] Mark of a Hero: it made sense to me
[10:55] Wolfca: why?
nah
nevermind
my point is that
only people, who dont know what "axioms" are and why they matter, who dont know what the scientific method is and why its important and who dont come from cultures that put value in
intelllectual honesty
can believe in the quran
and you havnt moved me
[10:57] Mark of a Hero: where would you find a book thats "forces" u to be kind to others and a better person?
[10:57] Wolfca: there is none
[10:57] Mark of a Hero: I used to hate black people
in my teens
I saw myself above them
I treated them as slaves
[10:58] Wolfca: okay
seems sad to me
but that is teenagers for you
[10:58] Mark of a Hero: yup
[10:58] Wolfca: but
[10:58] Mark of a Hero: at the same age
[10:58] Wolfca: dude
to be honest
[10:58] Mark of a Hero: I learned that all of us are equals
I used to get advice
[10:59] Wolfca: no,
[10:59] Mark of a Hero: from others
but never cared
[10:59] Wolfca: you still do
[10:59] Mark of a Hero: what really moved me was the Quran
[10:59] Wolfca: that is teenagers for you
stupid
[10:59] Mark of a Hero: I know i''m telling u
no one couldve changed me
[10:59] Wolfca: it only moved you because you were looking for a reason to be moved
[11:00] Mark of a Hero: nope
[11:00] Wolfca: its called a catalyst
[11:00] Mark of a Hero: I didnt care less
I cant explain
[11:00] Wolfca: okay
lets saay all that is try
*true
[11:00] Mark of a Hero: what I felt
[11:00] Wolfca: and what are feelings?
[11:01] Mark of a Hero: one sec
[11:01] Wolfca: nah
[11:01] Mark of a Hero: Al-Nisa 34
[11:01] Wolfca: yeah?
[11:02] Mark of a Hero: it says that men are to look out after their wives
[11:02] Wolfca: no
[11:02] Mark of a Hero: or sisters whatever
it is
[11:02] Wolfca: you are parafrazing
[11:02] Mark of a Hero: I'm reading it in arabic right now
in my hand
[11:02] Wolfca: Men have authority over women by [right of] what Allah
that
[11:03] Mark of a Hero: man its written
[11:03] Wolfca: is just
immoral
unethical
[11:03] Mark of a Hero: Quamon
I know what that means
Quamon = the have a responsibility towrds them
they
in the same sentence
it says no never hit them unless it is truly necessary
[11:04] Wolfca: IT IS NEVER
[11:04] Mark of a Hero: to*
[11:04] Wolfca: IT IS NEVER FUCKINNG NECESARRY TO HIT ANOTHER PERSON
[11:04] Mark of a Hero: Never unless it is necessary
women are not angels
men arent either
lol
[11:05] Wolfca: you are to far gone dude
the virus got yo
u
you cant be morally honest anymore
[11:05] Mark of a Hero: if it is so
a while ago u just said what if I hit u?
[11:06] Wolfca: yeah?
[11:06] Mark of a Hero: so why would u hit me unnecessarily?
[11:06] Wolfca: I wouldnt
I said "what if I hit u?" not "im going to hit you"
[11:07] Mark of a Hero: ok i wouldnt hit u too unless its absolutley necessary
[11:07] Wolfca: you are taking it out of context
before we were talking about respecting cultures
[11:08] Mark of a Hero: there are plenty of examples but I took one from ur mouth
[11:08] Wolfca: and if there were a culture
where it would be okay for some1 to hit another person out of the blue
I
wouldnt respect it
just like I dont "respect" islam
[11:08] Mark of a Hero: if ur wife cheats on u
[11:08] Wolfca: ?
[11:08] Mark of a Hero: would u be able to ontrol ur anger?
[11:09] Wolfca: she cant
[11:09] Mark of a Hero: could u resist not hitting her?
[11:09] Wolfca: dude
stop projecting
alvi (my gf)
cant cheat on me
[11:09] Mark of a Hero: u said why is it necessery to hit someone?
[11:09] Wolfca: dude
one topic at a time
[11:10] Mark of a Hero: thats the topic
[11:10] Wolfca: but you just talked
as though
[11:10] Mark of a Hero: i gave u an example u didnt like it
[11:10] Wolfca: my gf could cheat on me
Its not that I dont like it
it cant happend
she is allowed to "cheat" on me
so why would I be angry?
[11:11] Mark of a Hero: lol I meant the first one about u hitting me
thats why I moved to this
what if
[11:11] Wolfca: that is because you took it out of context
dude
[11:11] Mark of a Hero: I asked i didnt say she would
[11:12] Wolfca: can we just clear this up
[11:12] Mark of a Hero: how would u direct that anger?
[11:12] Wolfca: WHAT
ANGER
[11:12] Mark of a Hero: u know I have a point
[11:12] Wolfca: I dont own her
[11:12] Mark of a Hero: uf wife cheating on u
[11:12] Wolfca: she is allowed to
so there would be no anger
and yes
you have a point, but not the one you think you have
ofc
there are reasons
to hit a person
lets say they stand with a knife
wanting to cut
a kid
you would be morally impaired if you wouldnt knock him out
but that is not
what the Qu'ran is talking about
its talking about
women being arrogant
and men "having to protect them"
why? why cant people choose their relationships individually?
[11:14] Mark of a Hero: thats another thing the quran teaches us that it is forbidden to sleep with woman whom are not our wives and marriage is an entitlement to not cheat on each other
[11:14] Wolfca: on whos authority?
[11:15] Mark of a Hero: i gave u an example from this point of view
[11:15] Wolfca: dude
can you speak english?
as in
talk
[11:15] Mark of a Hero: why is it marriage then?
yup more or less
[11:15] Wolfca: I dont know... why is it?
do you have skype?
cause you and I have a hard time bridging gaps on in text
[11:16] Mark of a Hero: nope dont use
nope its fine
u can email me anytime u want
[11:16] Wolfca: its not
xD
I wanted to talk
[11:16] Mark of a Hero:
[email protected]
[11:16] Wolfca: the flow is better
do you have steam?
[11:17] Mark of a Hero: lol unfortunately I dont sorry
u cant send me emails if its more comfortable than here
[11:17] Wolfca: kk
no no
I dont care
we take it here
[11:17] Mark of a Hero: and about freedom of choice
what do u mean?
[11:18] Wolfca: I mean we just keep chatting here
lets
instead of talking from the giant differencial gap
we are now
talk
of something more fundamental
[11:19] Mark of a Hero: I chose my wife after visiting free families
[11:19] Wolfca: wtf
???
[11:19] Mark of a Hero: three xD
[11:19] Wolfca: what are you talking about?
I dont get what that means
[11:19] Mark of a Hero: lol what u wrote above
about choosing freely
[11:19] Wolfca: ?
choosing what freely?
[11:19] Mark of a Hero: u wrote
its talking aboutwomen being arrogantand men "having to protect them"why? why cant people choose their relationships individually?
[11:20] Wolfca: okay
[11:20] Mark of a Hero: did you mean that woman are forced to marry someone they dont like?
[11:20] Wolfca: but that was not the point
no
[11:20] Mark of a Hero: what then
[11:21] Wolfca: Why is it written
in that way
as yo say
that men are in charge of women
why
if in canada
somewhere
there is a women, who really wants to be in charge of the man
is that wrong then?
(it was an example, I dont know if there is anything like that in canada)
my point is
to make you see
how immorally
[11:23] Mark of a Hero: they are "responsible" for them if they saw them doing something wrong they talk to them if no use hit them but not beat them up if not then leave them be
if she is setting him right
yea its fine
[11:23] Wolfca: dude
[11:23] Mark of a Hero: no shame in that
[11:23] Wolfca: we have a language problem
cause
I think I know what you are saying
but then
it doesnt make sense
An-Nisa 34
is wrong and immoral
[11:24] Mark of a Hero: thats what we call understanding between a man and woman
[11:24] Wolfca: and unethical
in so many ways
its stupid
[11:24] Mark of a Hero: I know the way I read it
it didnt make sense
[11:24] Wolfca: dude
[11:24] Mark of a Hero: but when I read it again in arabic
I swear thats the meaning I gave why would I make things up lol
[11:25] Wolfca: because you are more biased than you will ever realize
: |
[11:25] Mark of a Hero: I'm not forcing u in anyway to be a muslim I'm just clearing this out
[11:25] Wolfca: you havent cleared anything up
[11:26] Mark of a Hero: "trying to"
[11:27] Wolfca: Im sitting here with translations from; Ahmadiyya Muslim Jamat, ahih International, Ahmad Shafaat, Muhsin Khan and Muhammad Tahir-ul-Qadri
and in none of them
are their any doubt
[11:27] Mark of a Hero: what u are saying is that Al-Nisa is unethical
[11:27] Wolfca: yup
[11:27] Mark of a Hero: how is it when it is telling us too look after our women?
[11:27] Wolfca: its telling people its okay to hit other poeple
and its not
[11:28] Mark of a Hero: if necessary
[11:28] Wolfca: but its not
[11:28] Mark of a Hero: your are taking parts out of it
[11:28] Wolfca: It can never be
[11:28] Mark of a Hero: it is
[11:28] Wolfca: no im not
[11:28] Mark of a Hero: word by word
I'm holding the Quran in my hand
reading it
in Arabic
not the one you posted
the same chapter
Al-Nisa
Sentence 34
[11:29] Wolfca: dude
im not only reading one
im reading 6 slightly different translations as well
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/An-Nisa,_34
scroll down and you will se
[11:30] Mark of a Hero: I will redirect your phrase if the majority translates it that way does that mean thet they are right?
my native language us arabic
[11:30] Wolfca: so it doesnt say "beat"?
[11:31] Mark of a Hero: I'm reading it in arabic and translating it directly to u
[11:31] Wolfca: answer the question
[11:31] Mark of a Hero: it says "hit"
[11:31] Wolfca: OMFG
[11:31] Mark of a Hero: but if necesary
[11:31] Wolfca: see
IT NEVER IS
[11:31] Mark of a Hero: as a last measure
thats what is says
[11:31] Wolfca: the LAST measure
is breaking up
or getting a divorce
[11:32] Mark of a Hero: and if even that does not work
[11:32] Wolfca: YOU CANT HIT PEOPLE
[11:32] Mark of a Hero: then divorce
[11:32] Wolfca: NO
[11:32] Mark of a Hero: wait
[11:32] Wolfca: NO NO NO NO
fucck no
[11:32] Mark of a Hero: I'll explain
[11:32] Wolfca: you dont hit her
and then
if that doesnt work
get a divorce
you fuckinng psycho moron
[11:32] Mark of a Hero: lol
[11:32] Wolfca: you
can
[11:32] Mark of a Hero: hit her to set her right
[11:32] Wolfca: 't
YOU CANNT
[11:33] Mark of a Hero: hit her as light slap or something
[11:33] Wolfca: why do you think people dont respect muslims or islam?
[11:33] Mark of a Hero: to let her know ur angry
[11:33] Wolfca: dude
[11:33] Mark of a Hero: not beat her with a belt
[11:33] Wolfca: IT DOESNT SAY
YOU CAN HIT HER
with whatever you like
[11:33] Mark of a Hero: to give your re;ationship a chance to be fixed
[11:33] Wolfca: your allah has said so
[11:33] Mark of a Hero: to give her a chance
[11:33] Wolfca: and he is most high and great
[11:33] Mark of a Hero: its not wrong
[11:33] Wolfca: it is
[11:33] Mark of a Hero: nope
hit her as to set her right
man it says to hit her if she is wrong
why would i hit her with no reason
[11:34] Wolfca: and the fact
that you cant see that
tells alot about you
dude
are you stupid
there is no reason to hit a women
just because she is arrogant
then you should talk to her
or get a divorce
[11:35] Mark of a Hero: there is as an example i gave what if she cheats?
[11:35] Wolfca: those
[11:35] Mark of a Hero: u gonna stand and smile at her?
[11:35] Wolfca: dude
you are asking
a person
[11:35] Mark of a Hero: no fking way
[11:35] Wolfca: what did I answer last time you said that?
me and my gf have been together for 4 years
and she can cheat if she wants too
so can I
[11:36] Mark of a Hero: ok more the reason to be angry at her
[11:36] Wolfca: none of us have used it
[11:36] Mark of a Hero: yea
"girlfiend"
[11:36] Wolfca: dude
[11:36] Mark of a Hero: you exchange her anytime
my "wife"
[11:36] Wolfca: she is my wife dude
I just hate that term
[11:36] Mark of a Hero: we are entitled to not cheat on each other
im telling u if
[11:37] Wolfca: no
[11:37] Mark of a Hero: it would never happen
[11:37] Wolfca: you are not
[11:37] Mark of a Hero: but "if"
[11:37] Wolfca: you are entitled to nothing you havnt agreed on
[11:37] Mark of a Hero: sure as hell im gonna slap her
its a marriage bro
[11:37] Wolfca: then you are a lesser man
and your culture is fuccked up
im sorry dude
[11:37] Mark of a Hero: I dont care
[11:37] Wolfca: if you dont care
[11:37] Mark of a Hero: better than divorcing her
she should be happy
[11:38] Wolfca: just because you can not care
[11:38] Mark of a Hero: she got another chance
[11:38] Wolfca: that makes you nothing more than a barbarian
[11:38] Mark of a Hero: and be forgiven
[11:38] Wolfca: dude
lets say
you have a wife
[11:38] Mark of a Hero: after cheating on me
[11:38] Wolfca: listen dude
[11:38] Mark of a Hero: if not for the teachings of Quran
she wouldnt be staying with me
[11:38] Wolfca: you are to lost in this virus dude
[11:38] Mark of a Hero: nope
[11:38] Wolfca: you cant think or choose for yourself
[11:39] Mark of a Hero: you are imagining
[11:39] Wolfca: and you siad
[11:39] Mark of a Hero: that I beat the sht out of her
[11:39] Wolfca: said*
that it was a religion of peace
violence breeds violence
[11:39] Mark of a Hero: thats not what hitting in Quran means
it means hit as your are teaching ur child
[11:39] Wolfca: it is to stupid people
so god should have made the book stupidiity safe
[11:40] Mark of a Hero: hit but dont harm
[11:40] Wolfca: YOU CANT
are you
dude
you are to intellectually dishonest
[11:40] Mark of a Hero: thats hitting in islam not the way u r brainwashed to think
nope
[11:40] Wolfca: Im not brainwashed
I look at the book
[11:40] Mark of a Hero: there is a difference betweeen hitting and beating up a person
[11:41] Wolfca: I see what it says
and I see muslims
using that text
to justify
hitting their wifes
and I cant say they are wrong
cause
[11:41] Mark of a Hero: it is justified to hit in extreme cases
[11:41] Wolfca: it says so in the book
[11:41] Mark of a Hero: well
they dont get it
thats why
those are the barbarians
[11:41] Wolfca: oh they dont get it?
and you decide that
[11:41] Mark of a Hero: I dont deny they exist
[11:41] Wolfca: to sad buddy
cause
god says that they can
and if god says that they can
[11:42] Mark of a Hero: yes I do
[11:42] Wolfca: and you say they are barbarians to do so
[11:42] Mark of a Hero: yes he does
[11:42] Wolfca: they are not gonna listen to you
[11:42] Mark of a Hero: its ok to hit
[11:42] Wolfca: It
is
not
you siick fuccck
[11:43] Mark of a Hero: imagine
when I say hitting
[11:43] Wolfca: you cant hit another person who have not given you PRECISE and DEFFINATE promission
no
I wont
imagine anything
unless
you acknowledge what im saying
no dude
acknowlegde that you cannot
just hit a person
because they are arrogant
[11:44] Mark of a Hero: as in when a teacher takes a stick and hits a student for behaving bad
[11:44] Wolfca: who the fucck uses a stick on students
what are this? the middleages
violence breeds violence
[11:44] Mark of a Hero: and beating up as I punch u right in the gut
[11:44] Wolfca: its like the longest known fact in psychology
[11:44] Mark of a Hero: thats light hitting
[11:45] Wolfca: violence
breeds
violence
[11:45] Mark of a Hero: yup as the second example
[11:45] Wolfca: its scientificly provent
[11:45] Mark of a Hero: but the first one
[11:45] Wolfca: dude
[11:45] Mark of a Hero: is just us setting red lines
as
[11:45] Wolfca: listen
[11:45] Mark of a Hero: " you cant do this anymore"
[11:45] Wolfca: what?
do what?
be arrogant
you cant just hit another person for being arrogant
[11:46] Mark of a Hero: man what I'm telling all this time
[11:46] Wolfca: no
you are telling me
that you can
[11:46] Mark of a Hero: forget arrogant
[11:46] Wolfca: and it says so in the quran
NO!
[11:46] Mark of a Hero: I'm translating word by word
[11:46] Wolfca: But those [wives] from whom you fear arrogance - [first] advise them; [then if they persist], forsake them in bed; and [finally], strike them. But if they obey you [once more], seek no means against t
[11:47] Mark of a Hero: it means if they are in the wrong
[11:47] Wolfca: dude
[11:47] Mark of a Hero: from arabic
[11:47] Wolfca: ive talked to muslims
and they all
[11:47] Mark of a Hero: no word touching arrogance here
[11:47] Wolfca: As for those (women) on whose part you fear ill-will and nasty conduct, admonish them (first), (next) leave them alone in beds (and last) beat or separate them (from you). But if they obey you, then
here is another translation
meaning ill-will and nasty conduct
is that good enough?
because
doesnt matter
[11:48] Mark of a Hero: lol funny they got the first part almost right
[11:48] Wolfca: you still cant hit another perosn
[11:48] Mark of a Hero: "wrongdoing"
thats what ive been telling u all day
[11:48] Wolfca: and who decides what "wrongdoing is"?
[11:48] Mark of a Hero: but the second part
all messed up
[11:48] Wolfca: do the man?
dude
im out
im fuckking done with you
you are dishonest
and biased
and that was my poin
t
I wanted to talk with you
cause I hoped
you would sound more reasonable
[11:49] Mark of a Hero: I would be if i was trying to convert u
im letting u think by urself
[11:49] Wolfca: that doesnt make sense
[11:49] Mark of a Hero: and taking the time to explain things as best as i can
i dont regret it the least
[11:50] Wolfca: as I said earlier
[11:50] Mark of a Hero: I just becahe more facinated with islam
became*
[11:50] Wolfca: I dont care what a book from the 6th century might say and might not say
Okay
[11:50] Mark of a Hero: just a word of advice from me
dont read from translations
if u truly want to understand
make an effort
[11:51] Wolfca: I dont
I read alot
[11:51] Mark of a Hero: learn arabic and read it the right way
[11:51] Wolfca: but its about psychology
and philosofy
science
[11:51] Mark of a Hero: I would be hitting my woman everyday
[11:51] Wolfca: histoty
[11:51] Mark of a Hero: if what u said is true
[11:51] Wolfca: but it is true
if you like it or not
muslims are just to unthinking to see it
[11:52] Mark of a Hero: nope it is not u just took out the parts that made u sensitive
[11:52] Wolfca: nop
and that my friend
is very dishonest to say
[11:52] Mark of a Hero: u left the rest
[11:52] Wolfca: because
[11:53] Mark of a Hero: read all the way till the end you will return and try to make sense of it
[11:53] Wolfca: everytime
wanna go through it together ?
[11:53] Mark of a Hero: I can read into ur head of course i might be wrong
fine with me
[11:53] Wolfca: first part
[11:53] Mark of a Hero: give me anything that confuses me
[11:53] Wolfca: ?
everything confuses you mate
you havnt learn to think critically
[11:54] Mark of a Hero: confuses u*
[11:54] Wolfca: nothing confuses me
[11:54] Mark of a Hero: just like al-nisa chapter
I can explain it better
there is nothing in it for me
[11:55] Wolfca: you my friend
okay
I dont care
why are you not being intellectually honest with me?
[11:55] Mark of a Hero: but I will gladly clear your points out if i can
I am being honest
[11:56] Wolfca: I didnt say "honest"
[11:56] Mark of a Hero: you just dont get me
[11:56] Wolfca: did I?
that is because you are not talking with me
you are talking to me
I wanna attack this subject from many angles
but you NEED to be right
and ignore what I write
then I try and rephase
then you talk about something that I dont care to talk about
then you tell me
that I think that all muslims would be in war if ISIS was right
I havnt brought up ISIS
then you tell me I would be angry if my wife cheats on me
[11:58] Mark of a Hero: you said why ISIS use it for war?
because u said why would it be neccasiry to hit someone?
im trying my best here
[11:59] Wolfca: here is the context: You said "Islam is a religion of peace". Then I thought: if that is true
no1 would be able to use it for war
but they do
ISIS
so its not
a religion of peace
for along time
some biker gangsters
[11:59] Mark of a Hero: because there are people who interpret it wrong
[11:59] Wolfca: was the scariest thing in
my country
no its muslims
[12:00] Mark of a Hero: like you interpreted Al-Nesa
[12:00] Wolfca: its not
a religion of peace
dude
if there are concepts to understand
people will interpret them differently
the real question is
[12:00] Mark of a Hero: that is why if its not we would be in war with you
all of us
[12:00] Wolfca: why is Allah so stupid
not to make it foolproof
and the real answer is
[12:01] Mark of a Hero: Allah is not stupid
people are
[12:01] Wolfca: because tribesmen from the 6th wrote it
[12:01] Mark of a Hero: because they dont make an effort
[12:01] Wolfca: they looked at the bible
[12:01] Mark of a Hero: to understand the real meaning of it
[12:01] Wolfca: saw how much power it game the priest
thought
we want that kind of power
and made
the bible 2.0
new and improved
no lets go to war
and they did
and it worked
and they died rich
[12:02] Mark of a Hero: thats not Quran
[12:02] Wolfca: but
I was talking about muhammed
[12:02] Mark of a Hero: how would you not know they are in burning hell now?
[12:02] Wolfca: muhammed?
[12:02] Mark of a Hero: peace be upon him
[12:02] Wolfca: I think he is
[12:03] Mark of a Hero: u said priest
the genreral term for mohammed is prophet peace be upon him
[12:03] Wolfca: we are in agreemnt mate
I think good people go to heaven (if there is one) and wicked go to hell (if there is one)
muhammed is in hell
every1 marrying a 9 year old is
[12:04] Mark of a Hero: he was the greatest man alive
[12:04] Wolfca: nah
there was a biologist
in the 60
1960
[12:04] Mark of a Hero: and still is even after death
how great can a man become
[12:04] Wolfca: that is what Im talking about
in the 1960s
there were an american
who found a way
to biologically enhance 4 different grain sorts
[12:05] Mark of a Hero: evey muslim will defend him naturally
[12:05] Wolfca: it is estimated
that we today
now have nine times as much food
because of him
he might be
the greatest man ever to live
in my opinion
because he did something that no one can dispute, helped humanity
[12:06] Mark of a Hero: that is great but nothing compared what our prohpets has done in my opinion also
[12:06] Wolfca: he fucked a nine year old?
[12:07] Mark of a Hero: without them we would have never known what islam is
how would u know?
[12:07] Wolfca:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aisha
[12:07] Mark of a Hero: did u live with him in that time?
wiki
[12:07] Wolfca: did you?
[12:07] Mark of a Hero: lol
all the good deeds he has done of course I cant imagine he did it
[12:08] Wolfca: what have he done
[12:08] Mark of a Hero: it is indeed written in the quran
[12:08] Wolfca: of good deeds that have benefitted humanity?
[12:08] Mark of a Hero: all the good deeds you can imagine
[12:08] Wolfca: I can imaging
[12:09] Mark of a Hero: read about it in wiki u might thimk im dishonest again
cuz you dont know anything about him
[12:09] Wolfca: you are not dishonest dude
you are just 3 other things
that isnt very good
[12:09] Mark of a Hero: indeed he married aisha
[12:09] Wolfca: you are intellectually dishonest, you are biased and you are arrogant
[12:10] Mark of a Hero: i believe she was 9 years old yup or maybe older dont recall really
[12:10] Wolfca: that my friend
is sickening to normal people
[12:10] Mark of a Hero: so what I'm now married to my wife for 3 years
[12:10] Wolfca: but you are to biased to see
[12:10] Mark of a Hero: she still a virgin lol
[12:10] Wolfca: that is intellectually dishonest
because
we are not talking about your wife are we?
we are talking about muhammed being in hell for ******* a nine year old
[12:11] Mark of a Hero: thats your way of thinking
[12:11] Wolfca: *fuucking
true
cant argue against that
but its called
morality
and to some poeple
[12:11] Mark of a Hero: nope he is not I believe he is in heaven and praying for u even though u r badmouthing him
[12:11] Wolfca: its important
[12:11] Mark of a Hero: he is that great a person
[12:12] Wolfca: that isnt being great
that is just ignoring what im saying
[12:12] Mark of a Hero: dont forget he had three other wives
does marrying a 9 year old means he fucked her?
[12:12] Wolfca: if I said to a ****** "you are a disgusting ****" and he says "I forgive you"
doenst make im any less of a ******
[12:12] Mark of a Hero: nope
[12:12] Wolfca: *rappist
muhammed was a bad rolemodel
[12:13] Mark of a Hero: thats being a pure and loveable human being
[12:13] Wolfca: to be the absolutly most polite I can
[12:13] Mark of a Hero: he had been through so much more hardships than someone badmouting him
and still forgave him
[12:13] Wolfca: I cant love a 44 year old man who marries a nine year old
so what=?
his forgiveness is meaningless
he is a rappist
what he thinks doesnt really alter what he has done
[12:14] Mark of a Hero: he forgivven his wife and uncles killer in fact
[12:14] Wolfca: ohhhh so grand of him
[12:14] Mark of a Hero: why wouldnt he forgive an oblivious person
[12:14] Wolfca: did he make 9 times the food for the planet aswell?=
[12:15] Mark of a Hero: if he didnt spread islam we wouldnt be here to talk about it in the first place would we?
[12:15] Wolfca: and that would be a good thing
because islam is used
to covert people
to believing bad things
and nonsense
and remove
the real world focus
on evidense
to "faith"
[12:16] Mark of a Hero: and u accuse him of being a ****** just like that I will also pray foru my friend may u find the right path
and at th same time
it sured people
[12:16] Wolfca: am I wrong?
wasnt he a childmolester?
[12:16] Mark of a Hero: made them better human beings
cured*
[12:16] Wolfca: and is marrying a nin year old what a good rolemodel does?
[12:17] Mark of a Hero: and teached us many great things
[12:17] Wolfca: no he didnt
[12:17] Mark of a Hero: this is not the afterlife
[12:17] Wolfca: nothing
there is no evidense for the afterlife mate
[12:17] Mark of a Hero: where there is no wars misunderstandings or problems
[12:17] Wolfca: so you can dismiss it
[12:17] Mark of a Hero: of course these things will spread
[12:17] Wolfca: that is utopian thinking
[12:17] Mark of a Hero: the world u are describing
thats what is called "heaven" in Quran
he wasnt a molester
[12:18] Wolfca: you are just a modern muslim dude
you wanna make an old barbaric book
[12:18] Mark of a Hero: he married Aisha not raped her how would u know?
[12:18] Wolfca: look like a masterpiece with modern eyes
[12:18] Mark of a Hero: if he did it will be written
[12:18] Wolfca: you dont know that
dude im out
this to me is disguesting
*gusting
and you have lowered my respect for muslims even further : |
[12:19] Mark of a Hero: but that is the thing it really is a masterpiece I'm really sad about u not being able to read it the right way
you are free to think that
[12:19] Wolfca: "the right way"
that is why there is relgious wars mate
because everyone
thing they are so clever
and have the "right" way
[12:20] Mark of a Hero: I have showed nothing but respect toward youeven after insulting our beloved prophet
[12:20] Wolfca: enjoy your wars and you shia and your sunni and you wahabi and your ISIS
[12:21] Mark of a Hero: of course there will be wars
[12:21] Wolfca: no
not ofc
we havnt had a war
where I live
[12:21] Mark of a Hero: humans are not perfect shia ISIS even some sunis have their hidden agendas
[12:21] Wolfca: in 100 years
dude
people are not perfect
that much is true
[12:21] Mark of a Hero: you dont have murders?
suicides
[12:21] Wolfca: but if you give imperfect people a book
[12:21] Mark of a Hero: etc
[12:21] Wolfca: and say its the truth
you get religious wars
wars
that are unnessisary
Im sorry for you dude
I hope you dedicate yourself to things that really matter in this world
as humans wellbeing
and education
and not the silly nonsense you have been vomitting
[12:23] Mark of a Hero: thats what makes it a masterpiece its just a book but yet look at its effect it created wars, cultures, countries etc
it is all written in it
[12:23] Wolfca: ofc it is
[12:23] Mark of a Hero: that people will try to use it for war
[12:23] Wolfca: the people that wrote it
had the bible
[12:23] Mark of a Hero: and some will change its context
[12:23] Wolfca: and wanted to make it look more perfect
[12:24] Mark of a Hero: thats how allah wanted it to be to collect all the books into one book and name it the Quran
u are learning history?
take a trip through the history of Quran
[12:25] Wolfca: I have
Its nothing but war and human suffering
[12:25] Mark of a Hero: I'm sorry that u see it that way
[12:25] Wolfca: if you want to take a trip though philosfofy
I dont see it that way mate
its true
islam have had more holy wars
[12:26] Mark of a Hero: to u
not to me
[12:26] Wolfca: than the rest of the world put together
its objective dude
doesnt matter who thinks it
its objectively true
[12:26] Mark of a Hero: then why arent we forced to believe
think about it
really just think
[12:27] Wolfca: because people rebel against things they are forced to
instead
[12:28] Mark of a Hero: then how is it objective?
[12:28] Wolfca: the real way to do it
is to tell kids it
when they are young
and believe whatever parents say
and structure a sociaty in such a way
that there is nowhere to get a real alternative
[12:28] Mark of a Hero: if it doesnt force us to
[12:28] Wolfca: I said
"muslims had more holy wars, than the rest of the world combined" that statement, is an objective fact
[12:29] Mark of a Hero: I havent prayed for 18 years not untill I truly made an effort and wanted to understand my religion
thats not true in my case
[12:29] Wolfca: I didnt say your case
I said
"in history"
can you really not see the difference?
[12:29] Mark of a Hero: u said Quran is objective
[12:29] Wolfca: no I didnt
[12:30] Mark of a Hero: u are talking about kids
[12:30] Wolfca: ?
no
[12:30] Mark of a Hero: learning about it from childhood
I used to run from these clases
[12:30] Wolfca: I was talking about the best way to indoctrinate
[12:30] Mark of a Hero: hated it the most
taking up my free time
[12:30] Wolfca: so what
so waht?
it works
[12:30] Mark of a Hero: I never really payed attention till I was like 20 or 21
[12:31] Wolfca: it still worked dude
they got you
and taht is how you get people
you infect them while they are young
[12:31] Mark of a Hero: It worked because it is truly genuine
[12:31] Wolfca: you say so
but you are biased
because they got yo
u
so even though
you think you rebelled
they left a whole in you
that you came back later to fill
dude there a whole books about this subject in psychology
[12:33] Mark of a Hero: ddoesnt make them right
I would agree with you
[12:33] Wolfca: you would
[12:33] Mark of a Hero: If I was with ISIS
[12:33] Wolfca: but you are biased
[12:33] Mark of a Hero: going to Jehad lol
[12:33] Wolfca: no
no mate
[12:33] Mark of a Hero: you would have made sense
[12:33] Wolfca: ISIS is just one way
[12:33] Mark of a Hero: but sorry
[12:33] Wolfca: and ISIS
stands for
Islamic state in irag and syria
[12:33] Mark of a Hero: Quran is really genuine
[12:34] Wolfca: and you are not from Iraq
and you are not from syria
so ofc
[12:34] Mark of a Hero: they are people all around here
[12:34] Wolfca: you are not with ISIS
[12:34] Mark of a Hero: that are working for ISIS
some caught
[12:34] Wolfca: sad to here
[12:34] Mark of a Hero: some still not
[12:34] Wolfca: but you dont get the point
[12:34] Mark of a Hero: If i wanted
[12:35] Wolfca: you dont get the point
[12:35] Mark of a Hero: I woudlve joined them if I thought they were right
then if u came up to me
I would probably listen to u
[12:35] Wolfca: what metric are you using?
[12:35] Mark of a Hero: because what r u saying
describes ISIS
[12:35] Wolfca: what metric are you using?
what metric are you using?
[12:35] Mark of a Hero: im using u as a metric
all the things u said
[12:36] Wolfca: thats a shitty metric dude
seriously
[12:36] Mark of a Hero: I know
[12:36] Wolfca: what metric are you using for deciding who is right and who is wrong?
[12:36] Mark of a Hero: thats wht I have
killing people
or sorry
[12:36] Wolfca: what about the socratic method?
[12:37] Mark of a Hero: using the Quran to justify killing people
[12:37] Wolfca: what about the socratic method?
[12:37] Mark of a Hero: sure as hell aint right
[12:37] Wolfca: what about the socratic method?
[12:37] Mark of a Hero: I'm living in the UAE
here its diffirent
[12:37] Wolfca: I live in denmark
the socratic method is from greece
does it matter?
[12:38] Mark of a Hero: it matters if it is not applied here
[12:38] Wolfca: yeah but that just means that its a poor culture
seriously dude
why dont you use it?
[12:39] Mark of a Hero: thats why they are educating us by sending us overseas
[12:39] Wolfca: see I used it write there
because you have a shiitty education system?
[12:39] Mark of a Hero: everything is by choice
[12:40] Wolfca: that doesnt answer my question
[12:40] Mark of a Hero: you can choose to study in government schools
or study in American universities
or study over seas
all that freedom
[12:40] Wolfca: so you dont know the socratic method?
[12:40] Mark of a Hero: and still we get brainwashed
[12:40] Wolfca: yeah ofc
[12:41] Mark of a Hero: I chose to study in my country
I have 3 brothers overseas
[12:41] Wolfca: they dont want you to be smart, wellinformed, critical citizen that can think for themselvs
they want obidiant workers
who are just smart enough to work
but to dumt to analyze the government
and the religious system
do you
know
[12:42] Mark of a Hero: they wouldnt leave us free like that its by ones own choice
[12:42] Wolfca: the socratic method
Im not so sure
[12:42] Mark of a Hero: if they wanted us to they would not bother
[12:42] Wolfca: do you know the socratic method?
[12:43] Mark of a Hero: The Socratic method is a method of hypothesis elimination, in that better hypotheses are found by steadily identifying and eliminating those that lead to contradictions. The Socratic method searches
[12:43] Wolfca: yup
[12:43] Mark of a Hero: there no contradictions in quran whatsoever
u wouldnt find a single contradiction
[12:43] Wolfca: why would you say that?
[12:43] Mark of a Hero: I challenge u
[12:44] Wolfca:
http://www.answering-islam.org/Quran/Contra/
I won
scroll down and see the list
[12:46] Mark of a Hero: k
[12:46] Wolfca: dude
it was written by tribesmen in the 6th century
you cant expect it to be perfect
[12:47] Mark of a Hero: I will take them one by one
of course I need to go back to the quran
and read it in arabic
[12:47] Wolfca: can you do it some other time?
I really want to ask you questions on a last topic
[12:47] Mark of a Hero: first give me your email
[12:47] Wolfca: why?
[12:47] Mark of a Hero: I will send it to u
[12:48] Wolfca: send me what?
[12:48] Mark of a Hero: guess I'll take tomorrow off from work
the points
I will do it after your last question
[12:48] Wolfca: but mate
I dont care
you just said
[12:48] Mark of a Hero: no problem
I just wanna do it
[12:48] Wolfca: "there is not contradictions"
[12:48] Mark of a Hero: and test myself too lol
[12:48] Wolfca: kk
good
[12:49] Mark of a Hero: see how much i actually know :P
[12:49] Wolfca: okay
[12:49] Mark of a Hero: just give me the email I'll send u once I'm finished
whats your last question?
[12:49] Wolfca: I dont want it
[12:49] Mark of a Hero: lol come on
[12:50] Wolfca: ?
IT would be like for em
me
[12:50] Mark of a Hero: nvm I will write it on word and upload it for u
[12:50] Wolfca: to find a text from the zorowastrian scrolls and trying to expel real contradictions
you wouldnt care wither
*either
its pointless
[12:51] Mark of a Hero: no I really want to do this
got me excited
I'm sure this will harden my belief
[12:51] Wolfca: be my guest then
I just dont want to be a part of it
[12:52] Mark of a Hero: lol u gave me the list mate
thnx
[12:52] Wolfca: you asked for it
[12:52] Mark of a Hero: hopefully by this time tomorow i will be done or maybe sooner
[12:52] Wolfca: okay
seems stupid to me
but to each hisown
[12:52] Mark of a Hero: nah its fine this is good for me
[12:53] Wolfca: In what way?
nah nevermind
can I do the last thing now?
[12:53] Mark of a Hero: so that I can show you there are no contradictions
ok sure
[12:53] Wolfca: there is
I have linked you to them
[12:53] Mark of a Hero: I will prove them all wrong
[12:54] Wolfca: you cant
they are objective
[12:54] Mark of a Hero: and send it to everyperson I can
[12:54] Wolfca: or else they would be on the list mate
[12:54] Mark of a Hero: I will
[12:54] Wolfca: okay...
I dont care
[12:54] Mark of a Hero: I'm very positive these are mistranslations or mistakes
[12:54] Wolfca: they are not...
but test it for yourself
dont take my word for it
[12:55] Mark of a Hero: of course I will
[12:55] Wolfca: its not an ofcouse
[12:55] Mark of a Hero: I already caught a couple ones
[12:55] Wolfca: you dont test everything
[12:55] Mark of a Hero: how many points do u want me to test then?
I'm fine with all of them
[12:56] Wolfca: dude
im sorry mate
[12:56] Mark of a Hero: just do that last thing and let me work on em xD
no need
[12:57] Wolfca: I wasnt talking to you tonight because I wanted to challenge your cultural religion. I just wanted to talk to someone from the middleeast to see if its true they cant think critically
and
now im done
was nice talking to you amte
mate*
really was
was intresting
[12:58] Mark of a Hero: lol for real
[12:58] Wolfca: yeah it was interesting
it was
[12:58] Mark of a Hero: no problem man thanks for the enjoyable disscussion
[12:58] Wolfca: btw
[12:58] Mark of a Hero: I'm not really the best person though xD
[12:59] Wolfca: every religious person says that
[12:59] Mark of a Hero: but eitherway I'm gonna do that list haha got me really excited about the wrong things written there
no really man I'm not the best example
[12:59] Wolfca: k
no one is
but I dont care
you just dont understand it
I dont care for the best example
I wanted to talk about why you believe what you believe
but you dont have the mental tools to turn of your bias
and dogmatism
to see thing if not clearly, then in another light
bb
[1:01] Mark of a Hero: oh I see
[1:01] Wolfca: you do?
[1:01] Mark of a Hero: thanks anyway for having the time to talk with me
yea u were ccurious I guess
[1:02] Wolfca: what was I curious about?
[1:02] Mark of a Hero: I wanted to talk about why you believe what you believe
[1:03] Wolfca: xD
I hadnt even thought about that
[1:03] Mark of a Hero: copy pasted it from u *-*
[1:03] Wolfca: oh
I thought you were asking me
normally when you quote
you do these " "
[1:04] Mark of a Hero: oh ok thnx
didnt know xD
[1:04] Wolfca: k xD
btw
I didnt know if there was a thing
I mean the thing that I believed
but its called
"secular humanism"
nots not religious but it is a believe system
[1:06] Mark of a Hero: thats some difficult words but thank god for google
[1:06] Wolfca: xD
[1:06] Mark of a Hero: I'll be sure to read it after finighing up with that list
finishing*
[1:07] Wolfca: let me show you real fast
k?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secular_humanism
scroll down
[1:07] Mark of a Hero: where?
[1:07] Wolfca: till you come to fat black letters where it says
Council for Secular Humanism
there is a point for point
list
of what I believe in
Do you see the 8 points?
[1:09] Mark of a Hero: yes i'm reading them
thats exactly whats included and been proved in the Quran
but you might disagree with the etihcs part
[1:10] Wolfca: you see point one?
[1:10] Mark of a Hero: yup
done that
[1:10] Wolfca: I cant test to see which god is correct, or if there is one
so I cant believe mate
Im sorry
[1:11] Mark of a Hero: its really simple
there is no god
there is only Allah
[1:11] Wolfca: you see the second point?
[1:12] Mark of a Hero: and the Quran is his words
yes
[1:12] Wolfca: Reason, evidence, scientific method
[1:12] Mark of a Hero: you know about the second point
many people converted from islam
[1:12] Wolfca: there is no rationel reason, there is no evidense for thim
*him
and worst of al
all
[1:12] Mark of a Hero: because they couldnt comprehend somethings
[1:12] Wolfca: we cant test it
[1:13] Mark of a Hero: but then when it was proved by sciennce they converted back lol
irony
[1:13] Wolfca: some people are stupid
there is nothing speciel in that
but you see the second point right?
[1:13] Mark of a Hero: yup thank god some converted not the majority xD
yes
there is special things about it how can a book from the 60th century mention things before they are discovered by science?
[1:14] Wolfca: There is no rational reason, there is no hard evidense and we cant use the scientific method, so it should be dismissed.
so what
[1:14] Mark of a Hero: There are alot of reasons beu they are ignored
but*
[1:15] Wolfca: doesnt that just mean that some people have a biased interpretation today? or that it was known in the 6th century?
[1:15] Mark of a Hero: only people who refuse to believe have a hard time admitting it
[1:15] Wolfca: dude it has nothing to do with choice
either people can prove something and you believe it
or they cant prove something
and people then disbelieve it
its not a choice
[1:16] Mark of a Hero: it means that in the 6th century there was no means to prove that some things exist but either way it was written in the Quran and were just proved by science recently
how many galaxies are there?
how were humans created?
[1:17] Wolfca: is Abio-genesis clearly in the qu'ran?
what page?
[1:17] Mark of a Hero: how is "cell" mentioned in the quran how the hell do they know about cells lol
[1:18] Wolfca: where is it mentioned?
link
or tell me page side
[1:18] Mark of a Hero: it is not mentioned the abio genesis but it is mentioned that allah created us
ok one sec
[1:19] Wolfca: ofc it says allah created us... that isnt proof, that is a statement
you said there were proof
[1:21] Mark of a Hero:
http://www.quran-m.com/firas/en1/index.php/human/177-the-memory-of-cells.html
it is not 100% correct tranlation
I mean the verses
[1:22] Wolfca: Im reading them
give me a se
c
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHA
AHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
AHAHAHAHAHAHHA
xD
dude
we are done
if you believe this
then you brain is truely lost
[1:23] Mark of a Hero: hmm?
[1:25] : you are welcome *-*
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